Джинни (spb_bal) wrote,

Ниже я помещаю подборку мнений членов ECD-рассылки по вопросам истории и исполнения кадрилей в 20-м веке.
(Это для Гарольда прежде всего, в дополнение к его статье о лансье, но, надеюсь, оно будет интересно и остальным.)

Susan: /та, которая de Guardiola/
"I second the recommendation for the Library of Congress online
dance manual collection. In particular, look for the
"Fashionable Quadrille Call Book", which dates from the
late 1890's and is stuffed full of quadrilles, including more
Lancers variants than any normal human needs.
I have a copy of "Arling Shaeffer's Barn Dance", dated 1933,
which contains sheet music (with calls) for ten different
quadrilles of 3-5 figures each - it makes the connection to
modern square dance very obvious!
I also have "All-American Square Dances" by Al Muller, dated
1941, which has the "terms used in Quadrilles and Lancers",
which it doesn't distinguish from the terms used in Square
Dances in general."

Mike Mudrey
"When you check out the Library of Congress, be sure to check the
videos. There is a very good reenactment of an 1990s quadrille to Sousa.
Also, if you wish to drift a little younger (to about the 1920s, check out
Good Morning by Henry Ford (aka Benjamin Lovett). There are many
quadrilles in the dance revival from 1924 onwards."

Allison M Thompson
"The the true, 19th century quadrille with 5 figures, each with
distinctive music, was pretty well dead by 1900, though in some spots you
might find the Lancer's still performed. In some rustic areas people
might be dancing a called square dance, which is not, however, the same."

она же
"But these were self consciously-re-created dances and the quadrilles that
Ford referred to are not the same as the 19th century--another confusing
instance of the same word applied to two different (though related) forms
of dance."

Trevor Monson
"So where do the Irish Sets (Sets of Quadrilles) fit into the equation
There are quite a few sets called the nnnnn lancers - 2 that we often
dance being the Clare Lancers and the Tipperary Lancers, both having 5

Allison M Thompson
"I don't know! But the fifth and final figure of The Lancer's, which
involves everyone ending in 2 straight lines, I think all the men on one
side and the women on the other, and then they cast off in military
lines and meet up again...well, this particular figure seems to have been
the one that really "stuck" with people and so in New England they still
danced a dance called "The Kitchen Lancers" for some time, perhaps into
the 1920s or so. Richard Powers is really the one to query on this
topic. But it shows how tricky it is that words and their meanings
change--at one point I was looking for some quotations about dance and
someone kindly gave me something from an old novel of about 1790 and
there were people doing "quadrille"--but it was a card game for 4
players, rather like whist, I suspect! So one must really be suspicious!"

Alan Winston
"Trevor wrote:
> So where do the Irish Sets (Sets of Quadrilles) fit into the equation
> please?
> There are quite a few sets called the nnnnn lancers - 2 that we often
> dance being the Clare Lancers and the Tipperary Lancers, both having 5
> figures.
(1) There are a variety of things called the nnnn Lancers' in 19th century
quadrille books. They usually had t he Lancers' figure in common.
(2) I can't lay my hands on my copy of _Toss the Feathers_ by Pat Murphy,
which has Irish set-dance instructions and histories. If I remember correctly
- and I just got off a plane from the other side of the country, so maybe
I don't recall - Irish set dance as we know it today is the result of a
calculated late-Victorian resurgence of Irish culture, and, as such, betrays
many late-Victorian influences. (You wouldn't likely be seeing all that
polkaing before 1844 in any case.) (Substitute "English" for "Irish" above
and you get a statement that's equally true; it's almost true if you substitute
Unfortunately, the Collins Pocket Reference on Irish Dancing doesn't have any
history in it that I can see. If anybody out there can easily lay hands on
_Toss the Feathers_ perhaps you can clear this up."

Trevor Monson
"With reference to (2) from Alan below, I had been given the impression
that the Quadrilles had been taken to Europe/Ireland by the troops
(don't ask me which ones or how long ago or where from) who naturally
danced in all male sets. When the Irish then danced them, they changed
them to mixed sex sets, as in other countries, and also changed the
music to their local style of Irish music. Hence they are mainly danced
to reels in Clare and polkas in Derry etc. There is/has been a lot of
"politics" involved over the years, with different
classes/religions/party politics - of which I do not know enough about,
or even understand, to be able to comment further on who does/does not
dance these sets and how they evolved.
I haven't got "Toss the Feathers" even though I have been to several
workshops taken by Pat Murphy. If you ever get the opportunity to go to
his workshops - take it!! He is brilliant at explaining the dances and
the steps, and is so easy to get on with.
When dancing the lancers as Scottish, (with Scottish steps and music)
the "feel" is completely different to that of Irish and also as English
(as would be expected) even though it is obviously the same dance. I
wish I could find it in Welsh/Wales as well, as I would like to take a
workshop of the lancers in all 4 nationalities, and see if anyone
realised they were doing the same dance!"

Andrew Peterson
"Nordlys, the Scandinavian performing group that I am in, has a
Danish Lancers set of which we have performed some parts. It is
very similar to 19th C. Lancers that I have done at Vintage
gatherings, all of which have the same fifth figure, the one
that turns the set into a four couple longways. Our music is
dreadfully boring, hence the reason for not doing all five
figures in a performance. The dances would be much better with
more lively music because some people tend to plod through the
figures. Being 19th C. vintage dances, there are things that I
would to do differently, but our director doesn't know anything
about Victorian dance and she isn't very receptive to my input.
We have a video tape of a Norwegian group performing a very
similar dance to different music."

Andrew Peterson
"--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
> ...Irish set dance as we know it today is the result of a
> calculated late-Victorian resurgence of Irish culture, and, as
> such, betrays many late-Victorian influences...
To recall a brief discussion about Danish dance a while back
(which I took it off list when I replied to Pat), I inquired of
a friend in Seattle about his studies of Scandinavian dance, and
he confirmed our discussion that the Danish dances that we know
today are mainly 19th C. dances influenced by ECD (and possibly
the French and Germans?). There are scholars trying to trace the
old folk dances of Denmark, but finding any trace of them is
quite difficult. I would suspect that pre-19th C. dances of
Denmark might be similar to the old dances of southern Norway,
since that area of Norway was, at times, historically a part of
Denmark. The Norwegians, Swedes and Finns, being more isolated,
may have retained their old dances (and music) while Denmark's
were being influenced by dances from other countries to their
Tags: ecd
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